UK Karting - Notice Board (Combined Forum) : Insurance & asking the circuits

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Insurance & asking the circuits
Posted by 'ghinzani' on 27 Jun 2014 @ 19:28

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ghinzaniJoined: April 2003
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Chris – the facts about insurance are generally for non-MSA the Circuits own (often corporate based) insurance is the basis for the policy, and will usually have wording something along the lines that the karts should be of a ‘known or MSA level’ standard. As they are not so specific there is thus room for interpretation, and thus conjecture and inevitably possible litigation further down the line if those standards are not met. However that is something that is known and generally accepted as part of the ‘risk’ by anyone competing at these meetings, as indeed I do myself.

With MSA you are part of a wider regulated system, and thus should enjoy a further degree of fallback in terms of what the insurance will give you. Talking to people who have been involved in the follow up investigations to serious and fatal accidents in motorsport the first thing the insurance company ask is was it MSA/ACU or whatever approved. If not then the scrutiny they subject everything too is more rigorous as they cannot unquestionably rely on the basic safety rigour to have been applied, because its not set out in a standardised manner. However its not just a case of whether you will be covered in the case of death or serious injury, its also a matter of culpability. If an accident happens that’s an act of God and the circuit, karts and drivers all meet the MSA standards then there should be no fallout. If an accident happens and karts have been sub-standard or drivers have been let race without proper training or indeed medical examination then sadly that’s where our increasingly litigious society comes into play. Organisers, circuit owners, even fellow drivers could become legally responsible for the circumstances. Which is why the insurance for MSA or non-MSA meetings needs to be transparent and for want of a better word, comprehensive. That not only costs money but time and effort on the part of the race organisers to ensure karts, drivers, facilities etc meet the correct standard.

You say ask the circuits, and indeed that is a good step. For instance I have no qualms about racing at Clay be it CPKC, Clay IKR or Endurance because I know it’s a professionally run circuit that put safety of customers/drivers at its heart, and is open and transparent in making that clear. Contrast that with Blackbushe kart circuit, who have last month and will tomorrow run a non-MSA Championship at one of their MSA meetings with karts that don’t run MSA legal engines, clutches, chassis, and tyres - even to the extent that a lot of them openly use banned tyre softener to get their corporate tyres to stick. This of course instantly renders their Insurance invalid because its not being run to the agreement under which it is issued as in there MSA permit, which forms the basis of the insurance says the meeting will be run to MSA standard. No amount of Kart Technical Exemption wavers or turning of blind eyes by the MSA scrutineers is going to stand up in court if anything happens during these races that subsequently becomes subject to litigation. And the worse part is because one set of competitors within that days meeting breach the MSA regs the Insurance for the entire meeting becomes invalid – meaning that the regulars of CKC are racing uninsured potentially and will continue to be as long as the non-MSA karts race there without meeting the MSA standards. Now as with non-MSA that’s ok if the people involved know the circumstances and have taken the decision they are happy to race with that risk. But when your Club does that and does not inform you its happening, or indeed the consequences attached to that decision, that’s when it becomes a serious matter as you would expect. Should any claim result, it’s a very serious thing to hide the fact from your members that yes you know there is a risk that’s been pointed out to you repeatedly, but no you chose not to broadcast that. People would then become culpable of criminal negligence should there be an accident. Theres no point in burying heads in sand and pretending the risks aren’t there. If the risks are there, then broadcast them and let the drivers and parents decide whether they are happy with that risk. Which brings me back to my original point – if the MSA brings in these ideas it is going to change the risk factors associated with the insurance premiums, and have you ever known insurance premiums to get cheaper?

Message Thread:

Positive moves from the committees by 'BanzaiBoy' (25 Jun 2014 @ 7:57)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'BanzaiBoy' (25 Jun 2014 @ 7:58)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'BanzaiBoy' (25 Jun 2014 @ 8:02)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'Dogman172' (25 Jun 2014 @ 8:22)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'BanzaiBoy' (25 Jun 2014 @ 11:16)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'Dogman172' (25 Jun 2014 @ 12:34)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'alanrr' (25 Jun 2014 @ 10:42)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'buzzinrussell' (25 Jun 2014 @ 23:24)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'BanzaiBoy' (26 Jun 2014 @ 7:46)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'davidmc' (26 Jun 2014 @ 9:18)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'colin' (26 Jun 2014 @ 9:21)

Re: no response to tyre cost by 'TeamPoor' (26 Jun 2014 @ 9:52)

Exactly I'm with Colin on this one. :-) by 'BanzaiBoy' (26 Jun 2014 @ 10:59)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'SimonS' (26 Jun 2014 @ 11:06)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'christkm' (26 Jun 2014 @ 11:46)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'SimonS' (26 Jun 2014 @ 12:20)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'christkm' (26 Jun 2014 @ 12:26)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'iant' (26 Jun 2014 @ 9:26)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'alanrr' (26 Jun 2014 @ 10:03)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'iant' (26 Jun 2014 @ 10:46)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'BanzaiBoy' (26 Jun 2014 @ 11:11)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'iant' (26 Jun 2014 @ 19:20)

Re: -Negative moves from the MSA by 'dynamax' (26 Jun 2014 @ 11:08)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'SimonS' (26 Jun 2014 @ 12:00)

Re: Positive moves from the committees by 'kai' (26 Jun 2014 @ 13:11)

Oh dear! Mr Angry is now VERY angry. by 'alanrr' (26 Jun 2014 @ 11:17)

Re: Oh dear! Mr Angry is now VERY angry. by 'buzzinrussell' (26 Jun 2014 @ 12:26)

Sorry Russell, bloody predictive text NT by 'alanrr' (26 Jun 2014 @ 12:32)

Whats the Insurance & cost implications here? by 'ghinzani' (26 Jun 2014 @ 14:17)

Re: Whats the Insurance & cost implications here? by 'davidmc' (26 Jun 2014 @ 15:09)

Is the cover the same? by 'PhilipSharrocks' (27 Jun 2014 @ 8:05)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'christkm' (27 Jun 2014 @ 8:49)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'JonWright' (27 Jun 2014 @ 10:07)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'buzzinrussell' (27 Jun 2014 @ 10:08)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'christkm' (27 Jun 2014 @ 10:27)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'JonWright' (27 Jun 2014 @ 11:08)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'christkm' (27 Jun 2014 @ 11:31)

Re: Is the cover the same? by 'SimonS' (27 Jun 2014 @ 14:52)

Insurance & asking the circuits by 'ghinzani' << You are here!

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'alanrr' (27 Jun 2014 @ 20:08)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'ghinzani' (27 Jun 2014 @ 20:14)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'alanrr' (27 Jun 2014 @ 20:42)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'Shaynec' (27 Jun 2014 @ 21:18)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'BilandRacer9' (27 Jun 2014 @ 21:24)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'Shaynec' (27 Jun 2014 @ 21:53)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'BilandRacer9' (27 Jun 2014 @ 22:37)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'Shaynec' (28 Jun 2014 @ 4:33)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'gashead' (28 Jun 2014 @ 21:27)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'BilandRacer9' (28 Jun 2014 @ 22:28)

Re: Insurance & asking the circuits by 'gashead' (11 Aug 2014 @ 19:56)

Re: Is the cover the same? Phillip by 'ghinzani' (27 Jun 2014 @ 12:24)

Re: Is the cover the same? Phillip by 'davidmc' (27 Jun 2014 @ 12:50)

Re: Whats the Insurance & cost implications here? by 'BanzaiBoy' (26 Jun 2014 @ 15:19)

Re: Whats the Insurance & cost implications here? by 'ghinzani' (26 Jun 2014 @ 15:52)

Re: Whats the Insurance & cost implications here? by 'TeamPoor' (26 Jun 2014 @ 16:03)

Re: Whats the Insurance & cost implications here? by 'Dogman172' (27 Jun 2014 @ 19:52)

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