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Re: ITPRO'S solution
Posted by 'davidmc' on 12 Aug 2015 @ 15:07

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davidmcJoined: April 2003
Total Posts: 2
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Firstly, there's no law stating a refugee must seek asylum in the first safe country. They can legally seek asylum in any country. We can legally return them to a third safe country if we think they could have claimed asylum there. Of course, that would require the cooperation of said third country. What we can't do is just "send them home".

Secondly, over 90% of those arriving in Australia by boat were deemed to be genuine refugees. The "boat people" problem for Australia wasn't solved by turning them back. It was solved by allowing them to claim asylum in Australia whilst still in Indonesia. It would be the equivalent of us setting up an immigration centre in Calais and processing them there. That solution might work for Greece, Spain and Italy - who have hosted the vast majority of the immigrants - and could work as an EU wide solution, but it's not a solution for the UK. We have laughably small numbers of immigrants attempting to gain entry to the UK and an even smaller number that are granted asylum.

Thirdly, a country like Germany, which has a comparable economy and similar population density has a far greater number of asylum applications (200,000 in 2014 compared to 30,000 for us) and grants more also (41,000). In fact, we're behind Germany, France, Italy, Hungary and Sweden. More proof that most immigrants aren't headed here.

Again, my point is that most aren't coming here, don't increase the welfare bill if they do, they tend to contribute to the economy and it's most definitely our duty to help those whose countries we helped destabilise (let alone any moral obligation). I'm open to any evidence that this is not the case.

Finally, to address your question. If I stated that there should be a maximum, you would simply claim victory; stating that we only differ on the number and method. If I stated that there should be no maximum, you would likely claim that I'm some leftist nut who would be happy with 7bn coming here and am therefore not worth arguing with. I'm happy to answer the question honestly, but I'm not expecting a reasoned response...

Simply, within some practical limitations (which I'll describe later), I don't think there should be a limit on the number of immigrants and I believe the free movement of people should be global, not just EU wide. Some of the reasons:

1) You couldn't legally (nor morally) reject someone's asylum claim on the grounds that we're over our self-imposed limit.

2) Economic migrants come here whilst it's economically beneficial to do so. That generally means there's work for them to do. Why not let them in to do it?

3) We already have EU wide free movement of people. Why haven't all the poor from Eastern Europe arrived in the UK? Mostly, it's because they don't want to come here and/or have no opportunities here. Why would that be different when applied to the rest of the world. It would be balanced by the fact that people would be free to move to other countries.

4) I think it's wrong that by chance alone you can be subject to a life of abject poverty or substantial wealth; safety and freedom or war and oppression.

Some of the limitations? We would still need control of our borders as I don't believe criminals should have freedom of movement until their convictions are spent. There are also health (humanitarian and environmental) implications to consider. It couldn't happen overnight but would have to be rolled out in a fashion similar to what has happened in the EU. There are national security considerations also.

In practice there would be many issues to resolve, but in principal, I don't see why any person shouldn't be able to live anywhere.

Message Thread:

ITPRO'S solution by 'dynamax' (31 Jul 2015 @ 12:51)

Calais by 'MattCortes' (31 Jul 2015 @ 13:29)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (31 Jul 2015 @ 14:28)

davidmc by 'dynamax' (31 Jul 2015 @ 17:42)

Re: davidmc by 'dynamax' (31 Jul 2015 @ 17:50)

Re: davidmc by 'davidmc' (31 Jul 2015 @ 18:45)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (01 Aug 2015 @ 1:52)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (01 Aug 2015 @ 10:54)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'AgedRacer' (01 Aug 2015 @ 13:02)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'MattCortes' (01 Aug 2015 @ 13:02)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (01 Aug 2015 @ 16:43)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'MattCortes' (01 Aug 2015 @ 17:53)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (03 Aug 2015 @ 13:28)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (03 Aug 2015 @ 16:25)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'MattCortes' (04 Aug 2015 @ 8:30)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (05 Aug 2015 @ 14:29)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (05 Aug 2015 @ 23:15)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'DavidG' (05 Aug 2015 @ 23:55)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'PaulMRotax' (06 Aug 2015 @ 7:51)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (06 Aug 2015 @ 18:59)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (07 Aug 2015 @ 9:42)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (07 Aug 2015 @ 9:46)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (07 Aug 2015 @ 9:55)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (07 Aug 2015 @ 13:13)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (07 Aug 2015 @ 14:13)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (07 Aug 2015 @ 16:24)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'PaulMRotax' (07 Aug 2015 @ 23:10)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (07 Aug 2015 @ 23:56)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'lollipop' (08 Aug 2015 @ 7:47)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (09 Aug 2015 @ 0:20)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'lollipop' (09 Aug 2015 @ 23:40)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (10 Aug 2015 @ 0:04)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'alanrr' (10 Aug 2015 @ 12:10)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (10 Aug 2015 @ 13:11)

facts are facts, try again by 'PaulMRotax' (10 Aug 2015 @ 13:44)

Re: facts are facts, try again by 'alanrr' (10 Aug 2015 @ 22:23)

Re: facts are facts, try again by 'PaulMRotax' (10 Aug 2015 @ 22:52)

Re: facts are facts, try again by 'alanrr' (10 Aug 2015 @ 23:03)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'alanrr' (13 Aug 2015 @ 17:53)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (13 Aug 2015 @ 18:00)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'alanrr' (13 Aug 2015 @ 18:12)

The figures don't lie, let them in by 'PaulMRotax' (08 Aug 2015 @ 7:56)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (09 Aug 2015 @ 12:15)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (10 Aug 2015 @ 0:15)

ignorance by 'PaulMRotax' (10 Aug 2015 @ 8:03)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (11 Aug 2015 @ 13:29)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (11 Aug 2015 @ 13:39)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (11 Aug 2015 @ 23:57)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'PaulMRotax' (12 Aug 2015 @ 7:31)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' << You are here!

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (12 Aug 2015 @ 18:33)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (12 Aug 2015 @ 19:07)

final solution by 'PaulMRotax' (12 Aug 2015 @ 21:18)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (13 Aug 2015 @ 1:04)

floody hell !! Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'PaulMRotax' (13 Aug 2015 @ 9:12)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (13 Aug 2015 @ 10:15)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (13 Aug 2015 @ 11:51)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'davidmc' (13 Aug 2015 @ 12:53)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (13 Aug 2015 @ 18:28)

dr when? by 'PaulMRotax' (13 Aug 2015 @ 21:45)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'itpro' (01 Aug 2015 @ 23:54)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Aug 2015 @ 10:39)

Re: ITPRO'S fianl solution @1.04 by 'lollipop' (13 Aug 2015 @ 16:44)

Re: ITPRO'S fianl solution @1.04 by 'itpro' (13 Aug 2015 @ 20:12)

Re: ITPRO'S fianl solution @1.04 by 'lollipop' (13 Aug 2015 @ 20:22)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'PaulMRotax' (01 Aug 2015 @ 15:06)

Re: ITPRO'S solution by 'dynamax' (04 Aug 2015 @ 9:46)

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