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David
Posted by 'itpro' on 12 Nov 2008 @ 11:47

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itproJoined: August 2001
Total Posts: 6
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Yes, that MAY be true but what do you THINK it says?

You are tryinvg to claim that a fractional increqae in 'input' would be SWAMPED by the already LARGER 'natural' input. That's plain WRONG and I'll use an analogy to DEMONSTRATE why that's the case!

The Earth's 'background' temp has been 'regulated' by the "Naturally occurring" 'Co2'. For example the Temperature at which mankind 'colonised' the UK was sustained by that 'natural' 'Co2'. The bit that WE have added over the years appears to be RAISING the temperature!

It's like all OTHER 'equilibria', it WAS in a type of 'balance' but we appear to have UPSET that balance.

Let's try a different example to show how a MICROSPCOPIC change in INPUT will make the system go CATESTROPHIC. Let's assume that a tank of water has TWO inputs (a HUGE one and a tiddly one) and ONE output. The water flowing in from the MAIN pipe is at the EXACT rate that the outflow can maintain the water near the TOP of the tank. The level is EXACTLY balanced at a 'comfortable' level so that it neither overflows nor runs dry.

Let's give 'REAL' figures! The Inflow from the MAIN pipe is 1,000,000,000cc per hour and the outflow is ALSO 1,000,000,000cc per hour. The tank contains 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 ccs of water and it only has 100ccs of 'space' left before it 'overflows'. The system remains STABLE, the tank does NOT overflow.

Now........ initiate the SECOND input which may only input an additional 1cc per hour. It is a FRACTION (1 millionth) of the flow of the MAIN pipe BUT........ exactly like the suggestion for the 'Co2' levels that MICROSCOPIC change in INFLOW (compared to the MAIN inflow) it is enough to produce CATESTROPHIC results in precisely 100 hours!

Yes....... the RATE of output will increase but NOT by enough to prevent the OVERFLOW event!

In any case, if you were a tiny 'spider' living near the 'water's edge', raising the water level to 'accomodate' that 1cc inflow will still DROWN YOU even if the water level only increases by a MICROSCOPIC FRACTION of the total depth of the tank!

The analogy is ONLY to illustrate ONE part of the discussion.... that a FRACTIONAL addition of input can DESTROY the balance of a system which has VASTLY larger inputs and outputs and total volume! In reality, the VALUES of the inputs and outputs and total volume don't MATTER.... what matter is that the INCREASE is enough to destroy the BALANCE!

And that was EXACTLY what YOU are trying to claim CANNOT be happening because 'our' Co2 'input' is only a 'fraction' of the 'natural' level.

Do NOT object to the details of this analogy EXCEPT on the level it was MEANT! I am PROVING that your basic assumption that SMALL increases cannot have a CATESTROPHIC result when there is already a LARGE input, output and total volume!

My analogy PROVES that your basic CONCEPT does NOT work in EVERY CASE! You were using the concept as PROOF whereas I have shown a clear case where your concept is just WRONG! Hence your concept CANNOT be used as a 'proof'!

Oh....... and for god's sake... please STOP changing the subject! I was discussing that daft idea that nuclear BOMBS have been the cause of global warming!

Ian

Message Thread:

bias-proof future assessments! by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 9:47)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 9:53)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 10:27)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2008 @ 10:11)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 10:32)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'Tmoon' (07 Nov 2008 @ 10:51)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'davidmc' (07 Nov 2008 @ 11:24)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 11:50)

Re: bias-proof future assessments! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2008 @ 12:21)

Re: bias-proof future assessments ...continued by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2008 @ 12:23)

Re: bias-proof future assessments ...continued by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 12:55)

Re: bias-proof future assessments ...continued by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2008 @ 13:07)

Re: bias-proof future assessments ...continued by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 13:48)

nucular testing by 'Tmoon' (07 Nov 2008 @ 15:18)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2008 @ 15:32)

Re: nucular testing by 'singers' (07 Nov 2008 @ 16:14)

Re: nucular testing by 'Tmoon' (07 Nov 2008 @ 17:17)

Re: nucular testing by 'davidmc' (07 Nov 2008 @ 17:06)

Re: nucular testing by 'RoadRat' (07 Nov 2008 @ 17:47)

more evidence by 'singers' (08 Nov 2008 @ 11:54)

Re: more evidence by 'Tmoon' (08 Nov 2008 @ 15:30)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (11 Nov 2008 @ 12:38)

Re: nucular testing by 'richpudd2003' (11 Nov 2008 @ 12:50)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (11 Nov 2008 @ 13:22)

Re: nucular testing by 'RoadRat' (11 Nov 2008 @ 14:20)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (11 Nov 2008 @ 14:32)

Re: nucular testing by 'RoadRat' (11 Nov 2008 @ 15:16)

Hold the front page! by 'itpro' (11 Nov 2008 @ 20:05)

Re: Hold the front page! by 'RoadRat' (11 Nov 2008 @ 20:45)

Re: nucular testing by 'richpudd2003' (11 Nov 2008 @ 20:56)

Re: nucular testing by 'richpudd2003' (11 Nov 2008 @ 20:58)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 1:31)

Re: nucular testing by 'richpudd2003' (12 Nov 2008 @ 2:26)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:08)

By the way! The word is NUCLEAR!!!! by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:31)

Re: By the way! The word is NUCLEAR!!!! by 'richpudd2003' (12 Nov 2008 @ 17:35)

Re: nucular testing by 'richpudd2003' (12 Nov 2008 @ 13:40)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:23)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:27)

Re: nucular testing by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:35)

Re: nucular testing by 'richpudd2003' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:57)

Re: nucular testing by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 17:02)

I think this has proved the point by 'Canceric' (08 Nov 2008 @ 22:07)

Re: I think this has proved the point by 'itpro' (11 Nov 2008 @ 12:15)

Ian ...you are like a religeous fanatic.. by 'Chad' (11 Nov 2008 @ 22:52)

Re: Ian ...you are like a religeous fanatic.. by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 1:29)

Ian .go and buy a large mirror ... by 'Chad' (12 Nov 2008 @ 5:46)

alternative by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 9:56)

Tmoon by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:26)

Re: Tmoon by 'davidmc' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:41)

David by 'itpro' << You are here!

Re: Itpro by 'RoadRat' (12 Nov 2008 @ 17:00)

RoadRat by 'itpro' (14 Nov 2008 @ 9:57)

ITPRO by 'RoadRat' (14 Nov 2008 @ 10:17)

Re: ITPRO by 'itpro' (14 Nov 2008 @ 10:25)

Re: Ian .go and buy a large mirror ... by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:10)

Sticks and stones ... by 'Chad' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:16)

That DID make me laugh..... by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 10:30)

cent spill for shot by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 11:17)

concider this by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 12:08)

try this link by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 12:15)

Re: concider this by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 12:31)

Re: cent spill for shot by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 12:13)

spilling betta now by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 12:27)

Re: spilling betta now by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 12:37)

Re: spilling betta now by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:15)

this is the link I wanted post by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:20)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:26)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:32)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'itpro' (12 Nov 2008 @ 14:53)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'Tmoon' (12 Nov 2008 @ 17:51)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'itpro' (13 Nov 2008 @ 10:03)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'Tmoon' (13 Nov 2008 @ 19:17)

Re: this is the link I wanted post by 'itpro' (14 Nov 2008 @ 2:08)

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