.......... I have weekends off!
Kudos...Good post. I can't promise to answer all the points ( I have neither the time nor the energy!), but here is a 'taster'...
"To Vic to answer your question, you ask how to get the message to the masses
Make the problem smaller, global issues are harder for the masses to feel they can make a difference, make it personnel not global bit like the messages in ww2, reward more/ punish less and switch some of the responsibility to the manufacture, they are the ones creating the problems"
I see two parts to this.
A) make the problem more 'personal'....Difficult until it BECOMES personal. The PROBLEM is not affecting people personally yet (apart from slightly worse weather). Its the SOLUTION that I think you mean to make more personal. Unfortunately, people don't work like that. WHile everyone is happily in agreement that 'something should be done to...', they rapidly change their tune when the 'something' happens in their back yard. "Oh yes, reduce the traffic on the roads....as long as I can still use them"
B) Making manufacturers responsible....Nice idea, but it has knock on effects (doesn't everything?). If you make 'goods' conform to even more regulations ( I know its bad enough already!), you increase the cost, and thus reduce the 'take up' That reduces the 'success' of the manufacturer, and thus reduces its labour requirements...increasing unemployement. Show me ONE political party that will stand on THAT particular platform!
"1. Include energy usage into the kitemark standard, each appliance is only allowed a max energy usage rating, ie there is some very low energy use kettles on the market adopt this as minimum standard, the same can be done with fridges (the fashion for big yanky fridges…….12x more power usage than the bog standard British one), TVs, DVD players etc. you know more than me if this could be done from a design side."
Nice idea. The only problem I see with this is the publics take up. For example..your 'low energy kettle' I can go even better...a ZERO energy kettle! And, as long as you don't mind waiting, literally, forever for your cup of tea, it makes some sense. The public WANT bigger refrigerators, TV's etc. If they cost more,
then you know the result...Joe Public will still buy them, and than complain that he doesn't get paid enough to make ends meet!
However, I like the idea....but I doubt the government do!
"2. 2 tariff electricity, each house is allowed a allowance based on the council tax banding, this allowance is charged at reduced rate exceed it and you go onto a higher rate, the electric companies are happy to give us free bulbs lets see how serious they are, it encourages and rewards people who do their best not to waste energy "
This is how industry already works (more or less)
Again, the idea is good, but getting the public to accept it would not be easy. See the point above, people are fine about solving the problem in theory, but as soon as it affects them personally....for example the furore about fortnightly wheelie bin collections.
"3. Cars
A. higher road fund tax on new cars, 50% reduction once they reach 3 years old, and reduced until they 7 years old where no tax is paid, yes every year cars get more efficient but have to at the whole product, look at the resources and energy used to make a new car and recycle it at the end of its life, compared to keeping a old one on the road with slightly higher emissions
This would discourage people from dumping older cars and reward the ones that don’t
B. set a max emissions for any car, if you can’t meet it then it is not legal to sell, give the car makers a set of regs like karting and they have to make the best they can within them limits for the target market"
AAHH! This is almost EXACTY the system that I have suggested many times! BUT!!!!, this too has the unpleasant side effect of reducing new car production. Unpleasant? Yes, in terms of jobs. And jobs is KING when running for election.
"All these reward the end user and push the supplier to be more “energy usage focused “, it easier to address the problem from the supply side than ask the masses to adjust with equipment that can be used too much, solve it at the root
All these would have an affect on the companies supplying and their profits short term but may protect against the “end of days” future our leaders predict and common sense hints at
Global climate change is the worst thing that has happened to green issues, keep it simple ……..reduce pollution and mange our resources is easier for the man in the street to understand and believe he can make a difference (and women)"
Absolutely true. In a totalitarian state the measures you have outlined could perhaps be introduced....including other more effective ones, such as population reduction measures etc. We, however, don't (yet) live in such a state (Despite NL's best efforts). While ever the people can remove a government that tries to force feed unpleasant medicine, these things have to be introduced slowly and carefully.
"Ian, your statement shows the problem of dealing with it as a global issue, you wont give up your vices until everyone in the country is forced to, our country wont give up their vices until everyone in Europe does, Europe wont until the rest of the western world will and the western world has very little control of areas outside of it………so where do you start…."
Not easy! Some of us think that the best way to start is to get everyone (well, almost everyone, we will leave out the nutters!) in agreement that there IS a problem, that it is serious, and that solutions are needed. If Enough people in the country ARE persuaded that they need to do somthing, then the politicians will have a mandate to take action. If that can be acheived in this country, then like minded people in other countries may succeed too. It is the only way, in democratic countries, to get the 'backing' of the electorate.
Of course, in countries like China, the problem is almost reversed. Even if the people want the effort to be applied, the 'leaders' may not, if it affects their hold on power.
"personnel responsibility , if you believe you live by it, promote it , if you promote but don’t live by it then no one will listen or believe to you, you will be judged as being hippocratic"
Oh so true! However, taken to the limit, we are ALL hypocrits. Just some more so than others. Even the 'eco warriors' stil use fossil fuels, whether to power 'Rainbow Warrior', or simply to manufacture their solar cells.
Anyway. gotta go now, people waiting!
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Vic and Ian.......and anyone else by 'kudos' (12 Oct 2008 @ 0:37)
