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MSA/FIA/ZIP Meeting - 4Aug09
Posted by 'THR' on 03 Sep 2009 @ 14:01

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THRJoined: December 2007
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Only just seen this parallel thread regarding the potential ramp effect of the ZIP front fairing.
I've reposted (below) our note following our meeting with the MSA, FIA & ZIP for those who did not see the previous threads regarding my son's accident in FKS at PFI.

Cadet Front Fairings Update – MSA/FIA/ZIP Meeting

Re: Associated threads:

1) FKS Cadets – PFI – B-Final Red Flag Incident - 21/7/09
2) ZIP Nosecone – Let’s Do Something – 23/7/09
3) Good news on the nosecone – 24/7/09
4) Your present ‘driver’s association’ – 24/7/09

Following an incident in Formula Kart Stars at PFI in July, there was some concern expressed in UK Karting’s forums that the shape of the ZIP Storm front fairing may have been a contributing factor to my son Tom’s accident where he flipped after hitting a spun kart and sustained a broken collarbone.

Following the subsequent engagement of the MSA, a meeting was convened yesterday by John Ryan of the MSA, also attended by Tom Harris (Driver FKS Cadet 88), Martin Hines (ZIP Kart), Andrew Mellor (FIA Institute), John Symes (MSA) and myself (Ian Harris). During the meeting, CCTV footage (courtesy of TVKC) of Tom’s incident was shown to all to help assess whether the cadet front fairing of the spun kart was, in fact, a contributory factor in the incident. However due to the wet conditions and the position of the camera’s viewpoint the impact point could not be clearly determined and therefore the front fairing design could not be held solely responsible in this case. In the following debate, I asked whether a vertical surface to the front, extending to the sides of the fairing would present a reduced risk of a launch but it was suggested that the forces involved would have distorted the plastic under impact and created a similar effect. It was also suggested that it may encourage more bumping but we all know that already happens and is more of a governance issue. The issue of karts being lifted from the rear during starts was also aired and John Ryan had seen a number of examples of front fairing height differences at his recent visit to Kart Masters last weekend with the conclusion that existing regulations should be enforced regarding the minimum front fairing ride height.

The MSA have taken this, and other reported incidents, very seriously and have an opportunity to feed their findings into an ongoing project specifically looking at cadet kart bodywork for a proposed new homologation. The MSA and FIA are working together to ensure that any future bodywork is thoroughly crash tested before it is ratified and following the meeting a head-on test is proposed to be included in the crash test scenarios. In the short-term, scrutineers are being asked to check that front fairings are not excessively damaged or mounted in such a way to increase the ramp effect.

Andrew Mellor of the FIA Institute has taken Tom’s crash helmet and Leatt neck brace to further study the abrasion angles and are progressing a study on whether neck braces provide a tangible benefit. Currently the choice is down to the consumer and although we’re pretty certain that Tom’s collarbone was broken by pressure from the brace, we can’t say with any certainty that without it he would have sustained a more serious neck injury. Clearly more data needs to be collected on this subject and brace designs put through some serious testing. In jest, I suggested that Bernie Ecclestone, now associated with FKS, should be given the opportunity to contribute to the cost of that research.

Tom and I want to thank all the meeting attendees for the opportunity to discuss many of the concerns raised by Tom’s accident and although we may not see any immediate solutions, we have at least contributed to the data being used to support designs for the proposed new bodywork homologation. We also thank all those who provided their positive contribution and experience in the forum threads and these were collated and sent to the MSA prior to the meeting.

Tom has now received additional treatment from Brian Simpson at the Phisiotherapy Clinic in Ipswich and is making excellent progress. I guess it’s now time to start getting the kart rebuilt in readiness for his comeback.

Regards

Message Thread:

Nose cone safety - Zip by 'Slippery1' (01 Sep 2009 @ 17:10)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'jakes93DAD' (01 Sep 2009 @ 20:00)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'dave56' (01 Sep 2009 @ 20:35)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'richydehav' (01 Sep 2009 @ 21:53)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'jakes93DAD' (01 Sep 2009 @ 22:11)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'richydehav' (01 Sep 2009 @ 22:35)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'Jeffers' (01 Sep 2009 @ 22:59)

formerly write to the MSA and series organisers.. by 'Chads' (02 Sep 2009 @ 1:08)

Re: formerly write to the MSA and series organiser by 'Willsdad' (02 Sep 2009 @ 1:51)

Don't buy a Zip then! by 'Xtreme47' (02 Sep 2009 @ 7:55)

Re: Don't buy a Zip then! by 'Slippery1' (02 Sep 2009 @ 8:33)

Good grief people.... by 'rjbcar27' (02 Sep 2009 @ 9:25)

Re: Good grief people.... by 'karter100' (02 Sep 2009 @ 10:21)

Good grief!!! by 'MJC' (02 Sep 2009 @ 11:19)

Re: Good grief!!! by 'cadetman' (02 Sep 2009 @ 13:08)

They Won't by 'michaelg36' (02 Sep 2009 @ 13:31)

Stop buying Won't solve the problem.. by 'Chads' (02 Sep 2009 @ 13:42)

In defense of the MSA, they are non commercial. by 'Andrewrr' (02 Sep 2009 @ 14:32)

Re: In defense of the MSA, they are non commercial by 'RoadRat' (02 Sep 2009 @ 18:51)

Re: Genk accident.... by 'Graham S' (02 Sep 2009 @ 18:30)

Re: Genk accident.... by 'RoadRat' (02 Sep 2009 @ 19:14)

Re: Don't buy a Zip then! by 'cadetdad66' (05 Sep 2009 @ 21:50)

Re: Don't buy a Zip then! by 'RoadRat' (06 Sep 2009 @ 14:18)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'Minisueg' (02 Sep 2009 @ 15:41)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'cadet1608' (02 Sep 2009 @ 18:10)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'Hootsman' (02 Sep 2009 @ 18:58)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'RoadRat' (02 Sep 2009 @ 19:08)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'cadet1608' (02 Sep 2009 @ 20:28)

I wonder... by 'rjbcar27' (02 Sep 2009 @ 20:52)

Re: I wonder... by 'Willsdad' (02 Sep 2009 @ 21:47)

Re: I wonder... by 'cadet1608' (02 Sep 2009 @ 22:12)

Re: I wonder... by 'michaelg36' (03 Sep 2009 @ 0:23)

Re: I wonder... by 'RoadRat' (03 Sep 2009 @ 7:56)

Re: I wonder... by 'chriskasch' (03 Sep 2009 @ 8:39)

Re: I wonder... by 'rjbcar27' (03 Sep 2009 @ 9:29)

michael... by 'rjbcar27' (03 Sep 2009 @ 9:24)

Re: michael... by 'RoadRat' (03 Sep 2009 @ 11:57)

MSA/FIA/ZIP Meeting - 4Aug09 by 'THR' << You are here!

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'THR' (03 Sep 2009 @ 18:51)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'Roblin' (03 Sep 2009 @ 20:53)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'THR' (03 Sep 2009 @ 22:24)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'iant' (04 Sep 2009 @ 15:16)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'richydehav' (04 Sep 2009 @ 16:06)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'iant' (04 Sep 2009 @ 17:11)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'richydehav' (04 Sep 2009 @ 17:30)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'iant' (04 Sep 2009 @ 17:37)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'rjbcar27' (04 Sep 2009 @ 17:40)

re: MSA/FIA/ZIP meeting by 'iant' (04 Sep 2009 @ 17:45)

re: And remember the MSA amendment by 'Graham S' (04 Sep 2009 @ 17:55)

re: And remember the MSA amendment by 'iant' (04 Sep 2009 @ 18:06)

re: And remember the MSA amendment by 'Graham S' (04 Sep 2009 @ 18:25)

Re: michael... by 'Andrewrr' (03 Sep 2009 @ 15:31)

Re: michael... by 'rjbcar27' (03 Sep 2009 @ 15:49)

Re: michael... by 'RoadRat' (03 Sep 2009 @ 15:55)

Re: michael... by 'rjbcar27' (03 Sep 2009 @ 16:02)

Re: michael... by 'richydehav' (03 Sep 2009 @ 16:49)

Re: michael... by 'RoadRat' (03 Sep 2009 @ 19:12)

Another issue then... by 'rjbcar27' (03 Sep 2009 @ 19:38)

Re: michael... by 'davidmc' (03 Sep 2009 @ 17:28)

Re: michael... by 'Minisueg' (03 Sep 2009 @ 18:21)

Re: michael... by 'Doink' (03 Sep 2009 @ 18:59)

Re: michael... by 'RoadRat' (03 Sep 2009 @ 19:08)

maybe we should....... by 'cosgrove78' (03 Sep 2009 @ 19:47)

Re: maybe we should....... by 'Smurf' (03 Sep 2009 @ 21:54)

Re: Two different issues by 'richydehav' (03 Sep 2009 @ 23:20)

Write the legal letters, threaten to get HSE .. by 'Chads' (04 Sep 2009 @ 2:32)

Involve the HSE and you invoke.......... by 'SteveC' (04 Sep 2009 @ 4:13)

the suggestion was to THREATEN.......... by 'Chads' (04 Sep 2009 @ 4:42)

Could it be that... by 'Moonshine' (04 Sep 2009 @ 9:40)

More thoughts by 'Minisueg' (10 Sep 2009 @ 17:54)

Re: Nose cone safety - Zip by 'HC64' (04 Sep 2009 @ 11:54)

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