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Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...
Posted by 'davidmc' on 27 Nov 2008 @ 13:16


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davidmc
Joined: April 2003
Total Posts: 2
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"Does that imply that you have NEVER done anything on the rolling lap to disadvantage OTHER drivers? Do you SIGNAL to the man on pole2 that you are about to accelerate towards the line or do you put yourfoot down when you feel that you ALONE will get the greatest advantage..... ? I was never that honourable."

No, it only implies that I think running a rolling lap slow enough to stop other drivers competing isn't fair. In my mind, trying to gain half a yard at the start is fine. Gaining many isn't (and I believe the CoC would penalise for a jump start if that were the case).

"I also thought that the start was PART of the race, too! I thought drivers came under 'race control' when they left the pits!"

The race hasn't started until the green lights have shown. The rules are perfectly clear on that. In actuality, whilst the poleman sets A pace, it is the officials who decide if the rolling lap is too fast/slow/disorganised etc prior to the race starting.

"It's this great concept of 'gamesmanship' versus 'racecraft'. Where are we supposed to draw the line? Using kerbs (which NONE of you argue are a LEGAL part of the track..... 'cos they AIN'T.....) certainly IS 'gamesmanship' but you lot choose to call it 'racecraft' simply because it suits you!"

In my mind, deliberately stopping someone from taking the start isn't gamesmanship and isn't "sporting". For using kerbs, I draw the line at the point where the CoC penalises me. For slow rolling laps, I draw the line at the point where people are unable to make the start. Your lines are obviously drawn in different places.

"I would understand your point better if you could explain how using part of the circuit which is SPECIFICALLY banned is morally ok but breaching NON SPECIFIC rules is NOT 'morally' ok? Either both are morally OK or BOTH are NOT!"

I think it's morally wrong for councils to continue putting up council tax without providing further services. It doesn't make it illegal though. The same applies here. Societal (read karting) norms show using kerbs to be morally acceptable and I'm fine with that. I find stopping your competitors from taking the start to be morally unacceptable. The legality influences - but does not dictate - my stance on the morality of such cases.

"Personally, I feel that ALL forms of cheating are morally UNacceptable regardless of whether I used to do them or not! I don't claim my examples of cheating were morally ok JUST because I did them! That technique is called 'post event rationalisation'."

Personally, I feel it's just karting and people take the rules and any transgressions far too seriously. If people remembered that the majority are there for enjoyment first and foremost we wouldn't have people playing silly games at the start and people wouldn't be so worked up about the use of kerbs or not.

Dave

Message Thread:

CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'TKM177'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 8:13)
Re: CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'Avago'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 8:47)
Who was the CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'rotaxdave'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 9:31)
Re: Who was the CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'Smith43'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 9:43)
Re: CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'cadet44'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 10:44)
Anyone who didn't take the original start is.....  by 'SteveC'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 11:24)
Re: Anyone who didn't take the original start is..  by 'JPG'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 13:24)
Not relevant to being allowed to restart!  by 'SteveC'   (25 Nov 2008 @ 8:04)
Re: Anyone who didn't take the original start is..  by 'alanrr'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 14:11)
Re: Anyone who didn't take the original start is..  by 'LRT'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 15:02)
Re: CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'kartcollector'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 17:17)
Re: CoC at Whilton this weekend  by 'Sticky'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 20:43)
The pole man is responsible for a pace that.....  by 'SteveC'   (25 Nov 2008 @ 8:09)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'davidmc'   (25 Nov 2008 @ 9:21)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'Sticky'   (25 Nov 2008 @ 15:38)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'itpro'   (25 Nov 2008 @ 15:45)
Rubbish, a driver needs to do the sensible thing!  by 'SteveC'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 10:42)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'davidmc'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 12:35)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'itpro'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 12:56)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'davidmc'  << You are here!
David  by 'itpro'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 14:36)
Re: David  by 'davidmc'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 18:24)
Re: David  by 'itpro'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 20:10)
Re: The pole man is responsible for a pace that...  by 'chriskasch'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 13:20)
The speed trap is only on the start line......  by 'SteveC'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 10:46)
Re: The speed trap is only on the start line......  by 'davidmc'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 12:45)
Re: The speed trap is only on the start line......  by 'itpro'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 13:02)
Re: The speed trap is only on the start line......  by 'davidmc'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 13:20)
Re: The speed trap is only on the start line......  by 'itpro'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 20:18)
Starting speeds another example of officials....  by 'QuickOldTimer'   (27 Nov 2008 @ 20:46)
You've obviously never used a pace kart for.......  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 10:35)
Re: You've obviously never used a pace kart for...  by 'chriskasch'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 10:40)
The current method of starting and the reg to.....  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 11:04)
Re: The current method of starting and the reg to.  by 'KartingPete'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 11:35)
That would be like timing the rolling lap!  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 12:22)
Re: That would be like timing the rolling lap!  by 'KartingPete'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 12:47)
Not having a grid of clean engines causes  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 12:53)
Re: Not having a grid of clean engines causes  by 'itpro'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 13:03)
Some kerbs yes, some kerbs no!  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 8:25)
Re: Some kerbs yes, some kerbs no!  by 'itpro'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 12:22)
The norm for karting is! (just for your......  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 13:22)
Re: The norm for karting is! (just for your......  by 'itpro'   (30 Nov 2008 @ 14:49)
Disc protectors are a CIK thing!  by 'SteveC'   (03 Dec 2008 @ 9:54)
Re: You've obviously never used a pace kart for...  by 'QuickOldTimer'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 11:00)
You've obviously not written regs before!  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 11:11)
There far from a perfect comparison!  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 8:50)
The off side reg hasn't changed in modern......  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 8:46)
Wrong again..... Steve!  by 'itpro'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 12:03)
Totally right, davidmc doesn't mention hockey!  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 12:27)
Re: Totally right, davidmc doesn't mention hockey!  by 'itpro'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 13:07)
http://www.karting.co.uk/notice/Message.asp?FID=1&  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 8:29)
...... and the TITLE read..........  by 'itpro'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 12:24)
However should you work out how to follow a.....  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 13:27)
Re: However should you work out how to follow a...  by 'itpro'   (30 Nov 2008 @ 14:52)
Safari makes it obvious!  by 'SteveC'   (02 Dec 2008 @ 13:07)
I'm so sorry Ian, I've only just realised!  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 13:41)
Hockey again!  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 13:29)
Just a test!  by 'itpro'   (30 Nov 2008 @ 14:55)
No, that would be your reply to your own post! nt  by 'SteveC'   (02 Dec 2008 @ 13:10)
Not so, football regs state very clearly that  by 'SteveC'   (28 Nov 2008 @ 8:44)
If I was talking about hockey off side, I would...  by 'SteveC'   (29 Nov 2008 @ 13:29)
Errrrr...... go on then.... explain it!  by 'itpro'   (30 Nov 2008 @ 14:58)
You're using an inferior browser!  by 'SteveC'   (02 Dec 2008 @ 13:08)
Re: You're using an inferior browser!  by 'itpro'   (02 Dec 2008 @ 17:05)
You've tested it on Safari on a PC!  by 'SteveC'   (03 Dec 2008 @ 9:56)
Re: You've tested it on Safari on a PC!  by 'itpro'   (03 Dec 2008 @ 10:24)
I don't think it was ever intended to do so!  by 'SteveC'   (04 Dec 2008 @ 9:09)
Just for the avoidance of doubt!  by 'SteveC'   (04 Dec 2008 @ 9:51)
RE:TKM 177  by 'Beezo'   (24 Nov 2008 @ 21:11)
RE:TKM 177  by 'TKM177'   (25 Nov 2008 @ 17:26)

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