UK Karting - Notice Board (Chat) : This stuff is NOT complex!

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This stuff is NOT complex!
Posted by 'itpro' on 01 Apr 2009 @ 15:54

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itproJoined: August 2001
Total Posts: 6
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I do it because the 'Gun In Tesco' is the PERFECT analogy to what YOU are claim about speeding! A slightly less extreme example, and even MORE directly parallel analog,y is Drink drive.

Speeding, firing a shotgun in Tescos and Drink Drive are IDENTICAL in, at LEAST, the following ways:

1) All three can and DO lead to DEATHS and serious injury.
2) All three are ONLY being done for the 'pleasure' of the 'do-er'.
3) All three ARE considered by the DEMOCRATIC LAW MAKERS to be ILLEGAL

What ELSE would you need to sjow that they ARE parallel in ALL the IMPORTANT aspects?

You MIGHT claim that:-

4) YOU can drive safely becasue you can MANAGE your speeding. Howeever, I can ALSO reasonably claim that I can MANAGE my drink driving and I could also walk trhoigh tescos with a loaded and 'safety-catch-off' shotgun. However, would that make it RIGHT for me to do so?

5) You MIGHT claim that you only speed late at night and where there are very few people. However, would you allow me a PARALLEL claim that I only Drink Drive at the IDENTICAL times and places that YOU find it safe to SPEED? Would you also allow ME to claim that I only walk, armed, through quiet Tescos at 2am?

6) You MIGHT claim that you are VERY experienced at driving fast, safely. So am I VERY experienced at drinking and I am damned GOOD with a shotgun. Would THAT allow me to break those laws?

7) And SO on.....

Now.... before you try to show me the ways in which they are NOT identical... try out your OWN suggestions for WHY you should be allowed to speed by applying the SAME e'reason' to my two example! You know that I WILL do that and it will save me a LOT of typing if you do the work for me YOURSELF!

**********************

The REAL point is that you (and those like you) absolutely HATE that argument. Why.... because it shows that YOU would NOT argue that I SHOULD be allowed to tote a gun in Tescos and/or Drink Drive..... but you INSIST that YOU should be allowed to SPEED. And, even YOU can see, THAT is just not RIGHT, it is not FAIR and it is not REASONABLE to hold thase 'schizophrenic' views!

And what's more, imy example makes you CONFRONT the unreasonable-ness of your claim! And NONE of you like it when I do that!

**********

BUT.... more to the point.... you ARE a karter... you are therefore (in MY opinion) likely to be a FAR better driver than Joe Soap who is NOT a racer.

However, when have you EVER met ANYONE who thinks they are NOT a good driver! Joe Soap is UTTERLY convinced that he CAN drive, as well as you or I can..... even though he is actually utter CR*P at it!

We now have YOU, who CAN drive, and thinks you can drive and Joe Soap who CANNOT drive but still THINKS he is as good IF NOT BETTER than you.

How the ***K are the Police (and the rest of society) supposed to be able to DECIDE if you are ARE capable of 100mph on country lane and Joe Soap ISN'T! If we let YOU speed, then how the HELL do we stop Joe Soap????!

And THAT's what it comes down to! We CANNOT tell who CAN and CAN'T drive safely. There are MORE people who CANNOT drive than wthose ho can and thus we ALL have to be banned to be able to prevent the Joe Soaps of this world from putting everybody ELSE at risk!

It's like all OTHER laws. I am probably safe to take injected Heroin... some 100 back-street kiddies are probably NOT so safe. Therefore, regardless of whether I THINK I can 'manage' Heroin... for the good of society, we are ALL banned from it!

GOOD!

*********

This stuff is NOT complex, Dan!

Ian

Message Thread:

Re: Continued from SAFE SPEED thread. by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (01 Apr 2009 @ 9:04)

Re: Continued from SAFE SPEED thread. by 'davidmc' (01 Apr 2009 @ 10:14)

David by 'itpro' (01 Apr 2009 @ 11:37)

Re: David by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (01 Apr 2009 @ 12:56)

Re: Continued from SAFE SPEED thread. by 'itpro' (01 Apr 2009 @ 11:32)

Re: Continued from SAFE SPEED thread. by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (01 Apr 2009 @ 13:06)

This stuff is NOT complex! by 'itpro' << You are here!

Re: Still avoiding the simple question itpro/tangl by 'JohnClucas' (01 Apr 2009 @ 17:11)

Re: Still avoiding the simple question itpro/tangl by 'PaulMRotax' (01 Apr 2009 @ 17:31)

Paul by 'itpro' (01 Apr 2009 @ 19:52)

Re: Paul by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 8:19)

Re: Paul by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 10:15)

Re: Paul by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 10:22)

Re: Paul by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:23)

Re: Paul by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 12:33)

Re: Still avoiding the simple question itpro/tangl by 'JohnClucas' (01 Apr 2009 @ 17:41)

-John: still avoid the simple question itpro/tangl by 'TanglerTKM' (01 Apr 2009 @ 17:47)

Re: -John: still avoid the simple question itpro/t by 'JohnClucas' (01 Apr 2009 @ 19:35)

Re: -John: still avoid the simple question itpro/t by 'itpro' (01 Apr 2009 @ 19:54)

Re: -John: still avoid the simple question itpro/t by 'JohnClucas' (01 Apr 2009 @ 19:59)

Re: -John: still avoid the simple question itpro/t by 'TanglerTKM' (01 Apr 2009 @ 22:45)

Re: That just sums it up Tangler!!!! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 7:56)

Re: That just sums it up Tangler!!!! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 8:24)

Dan....... by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:17)

Re: Dan....... by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:36)

Re: Dan....... by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 15:07)

Try thinking about it Dan by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 18:58)

Re: ARE YOU thinking about it Tangler? by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:24)

Re: ARE YOU thinking about it Tangler? by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:26)

Re: ARE YOU thinking about it Tangler? by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:39)

Re: ARE YOU thinking about it Tangler? by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:51)

Re: ARE YOU thinking about it Tangler? by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:07)

*sigh* by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:08)

Re: Excuse me Tangler by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:26)

Re: Excuse me Tangler by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:16)

Re: Typical ipro - no interest in facts or context by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 22:29)

Re: Dan....... by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:38)

Re: Dan....... by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 12:38)

Re: Dan....... by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 15:09)

Re: Dan....... by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:53)

Re: Dan....... by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:09)

Re: Dan....... by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 23:35)

I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.... by 'itpro' (01 Apr 2009 @ 19:50)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'JohnClucas' (01 Apr 2009 @ 20:06)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (01 Apr 2009 @ 20:35)

where are we with this? by 'TanglerTKM' (01 Apr 2009 @ 23:08)

Re: where are we with this? by 'Booney' (01 Apr 2009 @ 23:29)

Re: where are we with this? by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 7:40)

Ok...getting somewhere! Booney & Dan by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:17)

Re: Now that is real progress Tangler!!!! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:47)

Re: Now that is real progress Tangler!!!! by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:13)

Re: Now that is real progress Tangler!!!! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:36)

Re: Now that is real progress Tangler!!!! by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:57)

Re: Tangler by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 8:15)

Re: Tangler by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:26)

John by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 18:44)

Re: Tangler - well actually YES someone did die by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:41)

Re: Tangler - well actually YES someone did die by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:21)

For goodness sake Tangler by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 22:33)

John by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 23:38)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:10)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:50)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 15:08)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:12)

Re: I'll answer YOUR question the first time YOU.. by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:30)

Re: Sorry I should have said.. by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:15)

Re: Sorry I should have said.. by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:53)

Re: So answer the question by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:59)

Re: So answer the question by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:13)

Gentlemen....I suggest you look here...... by 'QuickOldTimer' (02 Apr 2009 @ 21:08)

Re: Gentlemen....I suggest you look here...... by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 21:37)

Re: Do be scientific by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 21:59)

Re: Do be scientific...get it right... by 'QuickOldTimer' (02 Apr 2009 @ 22:04)

Re: Do be scientific...get it right... by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 22:15)

john.....ahem by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 23:47)

Re: er Tangler no by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 12:08)

John....you're arguing against yourself now! by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 12:27)

Re: no I'm not!!! by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 12:51)

Re: no I'm not!!! by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 16:00)

Re: Try logic tangler by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 17:32)

and i thought it was blue..... by 'Avago' (03 Apr 2009 @ 12:43)

Re: This stuff is NOT complex! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (01 Apr 2009 @ 20:49)

Re: This stuff is NOT complex! by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 11:00)

Re: This stuff is NOT complex! by 'PaulMRotax' (02 Apr 2009 @ 12:39)

I really can't understand..... by 'vic' (02 Apr 2009 @ 13:01)

Re: Unfortunately vic by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 17:01)

John will do his BEST to avoid this BUT..... by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:28)

Re: No he won't, put up or shut up by 'JohnClucas' (02 Apr 2009 @ 19:47)

Re: No he won't, put up or shut up by 'itpro' (02 Apr 2009 @ 20:10)

One for the mix by 'Booney' (02 Apr 2009 @ 23:24)

Re: One for the mix by 'TanglerTKM' (02 Apr 2009 @ 23:55)

Re: One for the mix by 'PaulMRotax' (03 Apr 2009 @ 7:59)

Re: One for the mix by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 8:59)

Re: One for the mix by 'PaulMRotax' (03 Apr 2009 @ 11:17)

Re: One for the mix by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 16:10)

Re: One for the mix by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:00)

Accidents are NOT accidents because.... by 'Avago' (03 Apr 2009 @ 12:56)

Re: Accidents are NOT accidents because.... by 'Booney' (03 Apr 2009 @ 17:33)

Re: Accidents are NOT accidents because.... by 'PaulMRotax' (04 Apr 2009 @ 14:02)

Re: Unfortunately vic.... by 'vic' (03 Apr 2009 @ 12:51)

Re: Unfortunately vic.... by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 14:36)

Re: Unfortunately vic.... by 'vic' (03 Apr 2009 @ 19:37)

Re: Unfortunately vic.... by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:12)

Re: Telepathy or what! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:26)

Re: Unfortunately vic.... by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:21)

Dan & John by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:56)

Re: And the conclusion... by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 21:29)

The reason speed is made an issue by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 21:58)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:10)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:20)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:26)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:44)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:22)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:47)

Re: The reason speed is made an issue by 'JohnClucas' (04 Apr 2009 @ 19:38)

Re: Tangler by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 21:37)

Re: Tangler by 'TanglerTKM' (03 Apr 2009 @ 22:05)

Re: Tangler by 'JohnClucas' (04 Apr 2009 @ 12:42)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'QuickOldTimer' (04 Apr 2009 @ 14:19)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (05 Apr 2009 @ 0:01)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'TanglerTKM' (05 Apr 2009 @ 8:57)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (05 Apr 2009 @ 13:21)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'QuickOldTimer' (05 Apr 2009 @ 17:47)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'TanglerTKM' (05 Apr 2009 @ 18:38)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (05 Apr 2009 @ 20:05)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'JohnClucas' (05 Apr 2009 @ 21:28)

Re:Enforce the things that matter by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (06 Apr 2009 @ 7:24)

Re: and what about consistency in punishment by 'JohnClucas' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:47)

Re: This stuff is NOT complex! by 'DanTheK1RaceGearMan' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:37)

Re: This stuff is NOT complex! by 'DevonHawker' (03 Apr 2009 @ 20:48)

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