UK Karting - Notice Board (2-Stroke Karting) : Re: OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it...

Notice Board (2-Stroke Karting)

Re: OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it...
Posted by 'SimonS' on 01 Nov 2012 @ 02:12

| View Message Thread | Reply to this message |

SimonSJoined: December 2004
Total Posts: 4
[ View User Profile ]

"The replies have been fantastic so thanks everyone. Longest thread in a while. "

I'm going to disagree, all the thread has done is throw up a lot of complaints, without trying to analyse what causes them.

Although I'm going to take the side of the MSA, because they probably aren't going to answer the thread for all sorts of reasons, I have nothing to do with them, so it's very non-official, my view on how things get like this.

So, why is Non-MSA karting cheaper? Because it doesn't try to make decisions consistent from one site to another. Go to a non-MSA track and teh decision is made there. There is no appeal, no stewards and certainly no 'national court', all of which costs money.

The moment you try to set up a 'non-MSA' karting scheme which offers the track to track consistency of the MSA scheme, then you are going to end up with a variation on the MSA. What you are calling 'protection' is, I am assuming, the promise of consistency.

this means that when you go to a track, it meets a level of safety and that you can expect the same sort of decisions to be made at each track and that if there is a wrong / biased decision made at one track, then there is some way to appeal it.

"Its obvious that stumbling blocks are helmets, medicals, licence pack costs, ARKs costs (surely ARKs should be held on club weekends on a Sat or Sun lunch or as part of the day where possible to include these newcomers in the arena straight away."

Each of these decisions start out as plain common sense. It's us, the drivers, who make them all go wrong.

Helmets. Snell issue two different certifications, their details are http://www.smf.org/standards/sa/SA2010/sak2010_final (karting ) and http://www.smf.org/standards/m/2010/m2010_final (motorbikes)

The most obvious differences are that the karting helmets are designed for different criteria especially the head attitude and visual ranges.

If I was trying to prove that my bike helmet (2010 certificate of course) was suitable to use in a kart, I would be talking to Snell to find out why they made the differentiation.

If I was the MSA, I would accept that they knew what they were talking about (better than the non-helmet standards engineers in the building) and specify the kart standard as teh default.

If you want to use a bike helmet, you should have better information at your finger tips than "I think I would survive". It may well be that the reality is that the bike helmet with a wider field of view is just as safe, or it might be that the 'automotive' helmet with its narrower field of view was adopted as a kart helmet because of the drivers position and is mere coincidence. But it isn't the MSA's job to 'prove' at what may be considerable cost that SNELL don't know what they are talking about.

(I presume the angry bikers are prepared to spend their own money and time, first comparing the two standards referenced and secondly checking the 'why' with SNELL?)

"Medicals".

Again, the MSA has to lay down a standard of what is required. Karting has a far higher stress factor than driving non-competitive vehicles. (when was the last time you climbed sweating from the seat of a bus after 5 minutes of driving?) All the standard requires is to prove that the driver has had a 'well - person' check with their doctor once a year. Since your doctor recommends that you have a "Well Person' check each year, the MSA was merely asking that one should be able to prove it had been done by a signature. If the doc does it, then he shouldn't charge more than signing your passport, say Ł20? After all, he is already billing the NHS for having done the various components.

So let's not blame the MSA because your doctor is untrustworthy and greedy! Or because you might be unwilling to go to the doctor for an Annual Well Person check-up.

"licence pack costs, ARKs costs "

OK, I have to admit that I am dubious about 'the licence pack and Arks Costs. When I started there were, according to the stats, more people starting licensed karting than there are today, but lots of them only raced at one track. (much like current 'non-MSA'), so the CoC was able to identify people putting forward drivers and accept their opinion that the driver could drive. Given the small numbers, teh CoC could satisfy themselves that the potential novices knew their rules. regs and flags by a viva voce session.

The suggestion put around at the time was that the need to take an ARKS test would give tracks an incentive to convert arrive and drives (gathering popularity at the time) into licensed karters, as well as ensuring a steady flow of people who needed to reach a trained standard.

"I do feel statements from the MSA, clubs and organisers would be of a benefit."

Not on this sort of forum. There are people who, for their own ends, are quite liable to twist, argue and distort anything that is said. On here the truth is not a defence, because people are far more willing to believe a bit of mischievous nonsense than they are the truth when they are told it.

It isn't so long ago that a number of people were accusing a track of conspiracy to manslaughter and then were outraged when the track pointed out that if they repeated the allegation, they could and would be taken to court.

Even in the thread we have people repeating the nonsense about the MSA taking away licences for non-MSA driving....even though they have never done it and every driver practices 'non-MSA".

Sometimes it takes a long time to get even the simplest ideas over if 'we' don't want to listen. If the MSA spends the time repeating what they think is expressed clearly at the time, then someone is going to complain about the money there wasting and state that the only way to stop it is to go 'non-MSA'...where you know the track manager doesn't have to explain himself at all!

Message Thread:

The future of karting in the UK by 'deangwigan' (29 Oct 2012 @ 22:05)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'simog' (29 Oct 2012 @ 22:38)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Dunny' (29 Oct 2012 @ 22:42)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Chris34' (29 Oct 2012 @ 23:10)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Racing393' (30 Oct 2012 @ 12:44)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'davidmc' (30 Oct 2012 @ 12:54)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Racing393' (30 Oct 2012 @ 13:09)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'stemorton46' (31 Oct 2012 @ 17:21)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'buzzinrussell' (01 Nov 2012 @ 12:06)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Phitzy2' (03 Nov 2012 @ 9:34)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'PennilessFather' (29 Oct 2012 @ 23:26)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Mullac' (30 Oct 2012 @ 0:40)

Re: Mullac by 'Chris34' (30 Oct 2012 @ 2:11)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'jamydonut' (31 Oct 2012 @ 21:13)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Phitzy2' (03 Nov 2012 @ 9:37)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Birel' (30 Oct 2012 @ 7:24)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Bucky' (30 Oct 2012 @ 8:26)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'kai' (30 Oct 2012 @ 8:37)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'sciroccokarter' (30 Oct 2012 @ 9:34)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'buzzinrussell' (30 Oct 2012 @ 12:11)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'RocketMan46' (30 Oct 2012 @ 12:42)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Racing393' (30 Oct 2012 @ 13:04)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'kai' (30 Oct 2012 @ 12:57)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'davidmc' (30 Oct 2012 @ 13:02)

Re: The future of karting in the UK - Clarity by 'deangwigan' (30 Oct 2012 @ 14:26)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Iwan' (31 Oct 2012 @ 13:46)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Jasper' (30 Oct 2012 @ 13:59)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'BombHead' (30 Oct 2012 @ 15:05)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Jasper' (30 Oct 2012 @ 16:40)

Re: Jasper by 'buzzinrussell' (30 Oct 2012 @ 15:09)

Re: Jasper by 'Jasper' (30 Oct 2012 @ 16:49)

Re: Jasper by 'buzzinrussell' (31 Oct 2012 @ 13:35)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Mullac' (30 Oct 2012 @ 15:37)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'kai' (30 Oct 2012 @ 16:07)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'bodger' (30 Oct 2012 @ 19:49)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'racingjase' (30 Oct 2012 @ 21:55)

The future of karting in the UK by 'positivekarter' (30 Oct 2012 @ 23:41)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Reg' (31 Oct 2012 @ 0:26)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Jasper' (31 Oct 2012 @ 8:51)

jasper The future of karting in the UK by 'positivekarter' (31 Oct 2012 @ 14:26)

Re: jasper The future of karting in the UK by 'Jasper' (31 Oct 2012 @ 14:39)

Re: jasper The future of karting in the UK by 'Discobob' (31 Oct 2012 @ 16:46)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Jasper' (31 Oct 2012 @ 8:53)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'PennilessFather' (01 Nov 2012 @ 1:02)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'richydehav' (01 Nov 2012 @ 9:48)

Re: anybody know how to set up an E-Petition ? by 'buzzinrussell' (01 Nov 2012 @ 15:36)

Re: anybody know how to set up an E-Petition ? by 'richydehav' (01 Nov 2012 @ 16:16)

Re: anybody know how to set up an E-Petition ? by 'buzzinrussell' (01 Nov 2012 @ 16:32)

Re: anybody know how to set up an E-Petition ? by 'SimonS' (01 Nov 2012 @ 22:35)

Re: anybody know how to set up an E-Petition ? by 'Tricky12' (05 Nov 2012 @ 15:37)

Apathy perhaps? by 'colin' (31 Oct 2012 @ 9:40)

Indikart association? by 'BanzaiBoy' (31 Oct 2012 @ 9:55)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'Jasper' (31 Oct 2012 @ 10:17)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'Jasper' (31 Oct 2012 @ 10:22)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'kai' (31 Oct 2012 @ 10:28)

What were the best years by 'RocketMan46' (31 Oct 2012 @ 10:51)

Re: What were the best years by 'Iwan' (31 Oct 2012 @ 13:47)

Re: What were the best years by 'mccarro' (31 Oct 2012 @ 16:57)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'cjm2009' (31 Oct 2012 @ 11:04)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'dynamax' (31 Oct 2012 @ 11:24)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'VanDiemen' (31 Oct 2012 @ 12:11)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'michaelg36' (31 Oct 2012 @ 14:40)

Re: Apathy perhaps? by 'Traxtar' (31 Oct 2012 @ 15:28)

OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it... by 'deangwigan' (31 Oct 2012 @ 15:54)

Re: OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it... by 'Berniewade' (31 Oct 2012 @ 16:47)

Re: OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it... by 'richydehav' (31 Oct 2012 @ 18:40)

Re: OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it... by 'Chris34' (01 Nov 2012 @ 1:04)

Re: OK OK So lets discuss how to fix it... by 'SimonS' << You are here!

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'TCL' (01 Nov 2012 @ 6:49)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'NJB' (01 Nov 2012 @ 8:35)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'Jasper' (01 Nov 2012 @ 10:12)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'Aquila' (01 Nov 2012 @ 10:19)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'richardmcculloch69' (09 Nov 2012 @ 12:10)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'SimonS' (01 Nov 2012 @ 13:28)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'Racing393' (01 Nov 2012 @ 13:56)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'davidmc' (01 Nov 2012 @ 14:33)

Re: Information by 'Graham S' (01 Nov 2012 @ 15:37)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'Jasper' (02 Nov 2012 @ 9:15)

Re: Whinge, whinge, whinge by 'racingjase' (01 Nov 2012 @ 18:57)

Re: No trace by 'Graham S' (03 Nov 2012 @ 10:25)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'RichardB' (01 Nov 2012 @ 16:23)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Racing393' (01 Nov 2012 @ 16:43)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'colin' (01 Nov 2012 @ 17:32)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'davidmc' (01 Nov 2012 @ 17:59)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Traxtar' (01 Nov 2012 @ 19:41)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'stemorton46' (01 Nov 2012 @ 21:36)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Traxtar' (02 Nov 2012 @ 15:21)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'buzzinrussell' (02 Nov 2012 @ 16:20)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'davidmc' (02 Nov 2012 @ 16:58)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'SimonS' (01 Nov 2012 @ 22:19)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'Chris34' (02 Nov 2012 @ 0:36)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'mickypea' (01 Nov 2012 @ 17:40)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'buzzinrussell' (01 Nov 2012 @ 19:21)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'NickyW' (01 Nov 2012 @ 19:32)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'stemorton46' (01 Nov 2012 @ 19:44)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'buzzinrussell' (01 Nov 2012 @ 20:08)

Re: The future of karting in the UK by 'stevehf2' (02 Nov 2012 @ 16:31)

Post a Reply:

You may post a direct reply to this message which will appear in this thread.
To post a new or unrelated message use This Form. Top of Page
Notice Board Index

[ UK Karting Main Index ]


News	Karts & Karting	Notice Board	Market Place	Companies Directory	Tracks Directory	Events Calendar	Race Results	Photo Gallery	Links