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Re: ian
Posted by 'davidmc' on 07 May 2014 @ 20:18

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davidmcJoined: April 2003
Total Posts: 2
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1) "Also, the F1 poleman decides WHEN and WHERE to go to full power." Hence he gets to decide the pace. He can cross the line at 10mph or 180mph. In karting we don't have the same luxury. We have to be all bunched up until 10-20m before the start finish line. Everyone is sitting on the bumper of the one in front (it gets false started if they're not) and they all push each other all the way to the first corner. 10-15 years ago, this wasn't so much the case. The poleman started going much sooner and the field spread out.

2) No word play at all. 40-50 starts across 3 race meetings, all showing significantly less accidents, shows that the experiment is worth continuing.

3) "I've done this stuff before" is not a good argument, nor is "people will try to gain an advantage" as they're doing that anyway. We already monitor for slipping clutches and we already heavily monitor for modified clutches. What about the TKM guys at the front slowing enough to stall those behind? Is that not trying to gain an advantage? Standing starts doesn't change the fact that people try to cheat with clutches. I'd fully support getting rid of them entirely (see below).

4) The point is simple. You brought up F1 as an example of rolling starts being safer than standing starts (a poor example for reasons already explained). I brought up an example of a professional race series that uses rolling starts, where crashes at the start are a regular occurrence and crashes at the restart are a regular occurrence. Their starts are far more comparable to karting than an F1 restart.

5) Again, not confusing. An honest person will happily show the negative side of the argument. The CIK may go back to DD (i.e. no standing start possible). If we are doing standing starts here, we may be at a disadvantage there (yes, that's a point in favour of rolling starts).

6) Again, I can disagree with your assertion that rolling starts are safer than standing; it doesn't mean I have to support standing starts.

Just in case you haven't understood, the style of rolling starts we see now, seem to be more prone to accidents than the standing starts we have seen to date (they've done them at Bayford Meadows for a few years with positive results also). Does this mean I support standing starts? No. I would much prefer rolling starts but they will only work if:

a) The start is faster so the field spreads out (look at all the videos from the mid-90's on Youtube). Contact is less likely and far easier to spot.

b) Minimally, we don't have clutches (this has had far more effect on driving than bodywork). Preferably, go back to the European style narrow rear bumper also.

I see neither of these things happening (there's a chance if the CIK go back to DD).

In terms of contact generally, it seems to be the first and last laps that cause the problems. In between, contact is generally spotted and dealt with. The main problem on lap one is everyone is doing so it can't be spotted. The main problem on the final lap seems to be the idea that if you didn't gain an advantage you shouldn't be punished. If the P2 man pushes the P1 man into the final hairpin but doesn't get through, he should be punished as heavily as if he had.

I'd also say this defensive driving (one move to block etc etc) has to bear some responsibility. Watch the 1995 World Champs (with Button) and you'll see very little chopping and squeezing.

Message Thread:

PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'JohnM' (30 Apr 2014 @ 19:38)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'NJB' (01 May 2014 @ 15:09)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'Muzza' (01 May 2014 @ 18:44)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'olliewestover' (01 May 2014 @ 22:46)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'JohnM' (02 May 2014 @ 7:35)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'moondog78' (02 May 2014 @ 8:34)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'TeamPoor' (02 May 2014 @ 9:02)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'olliewestover' (02 May 2014 @ 9:16)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'rollover' (02 May 2014 @ 11:07)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'IanA' (02 May 2014 @ 11:59)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'NJB' (03 May 2014 @ 7:41)

Re: PFI to Trial Standing Starts by 'Bigjim1978' (03 May 2014 @ 15:48)

Standing Starts by 'jkhno1' (05 May 2014 @ 16:20)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Alan' (05 May 2014 @ 18:38)

Re: Standing Starts by 'alanrr' (05 May 2014 @ 21:32)

agree to disagree... by 'moondog78' (06 May 2014 @ 8:26)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 9:15)

Re: Standing Starts by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 10:10)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 11:06)

Re: Standing Starts by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 12:18)

Re: Standing Starts by 'PaulMRotax' (06 May 2014 @ 12:51)

Re: Standing Starts by 'AlfieMoon' (06 May 2014 @ 10:29)

Re: Standing Starts by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 12:24)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Flagman52' (06 May 2014 @ 12:39)

Re: Standing Starts by 'BilandRacer9' (06 May 2014 @ 13:01)

Re: Standing Starts by 'BilandRacer9' (06 May 2014 @ 13:02)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Venom' (06 May 2014 @ 13:02)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 13:15)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Aquila' (06 May 2014 @ 13:20)

Re: Standing Starts by 'Venom' (06 May 2014 @ 13:29)

Re: Standing Starts by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 14:07)

Re: Standing Starts by 'richydehav' (06 May 2014 @ 13:33)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 14:13)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'christkm' (06 May 2014 @ 14:21)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 14:56)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 15:46)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 16:04)

For Itpros benefit.... by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 16:31)

Re: For Itpros benefit.... by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 17:42)

Re: For Itpros benefit....continued by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 18:12)

Re: For Itpros benefit....continued by 'Moonshine' (06 May 2014 @ 21:33)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'PaulMRotax' (06 May 2014 @ 14:51)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 16:15)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'magician' (06 May 2014 @ 17:42)

Re: Standing Starts, Flag man by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 18:09)

ian by 'moondog78' (06 May 2014 @ 15:39)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 16:11)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 16:21)

Re: ian by 'rollover' (06 May 2014 @ 16:29)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 17:45)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' (06 May 2014 @ 16:43)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 17:56)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' (06 May 2014 @ 19:54)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (07 May 2014 @ 11:37)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' << You are here!

Re: ian by 'itpro' (08 May 2014 @ 0:25)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' (08 May 2014 @ 14:22)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (08 May 2014 @ 15:10)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' (09 May 2014 @ 12:38)

David by 'itpro' (10 May 2014 @ 1:58)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (12 May 2014 @ 9:37)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' (12 May 2014 @ 19:48)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (13 May 2014 @ 1:36)

Re: ian by 'PaulMRotax' (13 May 2014 @ 8:28)

Re: ian by 'davidmc' (13 May 2014 @ 9:41)

Re: ian by 'moondog78' (06 May 2014 @ 16:46)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 17:59)

Re: ian by 'moondog78' (06 May 2014 @ 16:35)

make starts faster? by 'SLK' (06 May 2014 @ 17:23)

Re: make starts faster? by 'SSR' (06 May 2014 @ 17:47)

Re: make starts faster? by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 18:06)

Flat out start by 'BanzaiBoy' (06 May 2014 @ 20:22)

Another video shock horror by 'BanzaiBoy' (06 May 2014 @ 20:37)

Re: Flat out start by 'davidmc' (06 May 2014 @ 21:09)

Re: make starts faster? by 'SkintFather' (13 May 2014 @ 11:06)

Re: make starts faster? by 'Venom' (13 May 2014 @ 11:23)

Re: make starts faster? by 'itpro' (14 May 2014 @ 9:23)

Re: make starts faster? by 'davidmc' (14 May 2014 @ 11:48)

Re: make starts faster? by 'itpro' (14 May 2014 @ 14:01)

Re: make starts faster? by 'davidmc' (14 May 2014 @ 16:30)

Re: make starts faster? by 'itpro' (14 May 2014 @ 17:20)

Re: make starts faster? by 'davidmc' (14 May 2014 @ 20:46)

Re: make starts faster? by 'itpro' (15 May 2014 @ 11:25)

Re: make starts faster? by 'PaulMRotax' (15 May 2014 @ 16:52)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (06 May 2014 @ 18:01)

Re: ian by 'Dogman172' (06 May 2014 @ 22:01)

Re: ian by 'rollover' (07 May 2014 @ 11:04)

Re: ian by 'itpro' (07 May 2014 @ 11:47)

ian has a very short one by 'PaulMRotax' (07 May 2014 @ 12:19)

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