UK Karting - Notice Board (General Karting) : Ok.... so what do we have....?

Notice Board (General Karting)

Ok.... so what do we have....?
Posted by 'itpro' on 01 Nov 2013 @ 10:07

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itproJoined: August 2001
Total Posts: 6
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One says it's the release of the inside rear wheel and another says it's release of the OUTSIDE rear wheel.

Another feels that both rear wheel would want to rotate at different speeds. Another that there is still positive lock applied at the end of the corner.....

Perhaps that's it..... if you STILL have positive lock applied at ANY point in the corner (other than the initial turn in) you have it WRONG! Just get a video of the 'Greats' and yourselves or your 'lads' and compare them. What you'll see is that the 'Greats' have the steering at 'DEAD AHEAD' for most of the corner. Obviously, for a short corner, changing radius, long corner, small angle change, then there WILL be differences in how the steering is applied BUT..... find a video of a 'Great' in a long corner and watch that steering! There WILL be small movements to balance the kart BUT 95% of the time, they'll be at 'dead ahead'..... Fullerton, Allen, Jackie Brown, Lorraine Peck, etc. almost NEVER moved the wheel once they were IN the corner! It was uncanny: all of it was on throttle control.

Garry Prior (as mentioned earlier) would adjust his weight balance mid corner (especially in Stadium at Rye House) but that wheel would remain 'dead ahead'. If the steering is 'dead ahead', then the rear of the kart will be at (effectively) a tangent to the corner-line and thus (even with a diff) both rear wheel would be (wanting to) rotating at an IDENTICAL SPEED. If that's confusing, think through the relative wheel rotation of a car with a diff. that's got lock applied (understeer) and then think about one with opposite lock applied (overtseer). In understeer, the inner wheel would 'want' to rotate the slowest, in oversteer, it would be the OUTER that 'wants' to rotate the slowest. Dead ahead steering thus is where both 'want' to rotate IDENTICALLY.

..... anyway.... I digress.....

Those who feel it's the 'releasing of the inner or outer rear wheel' should be able to tell us what actually happens at that moment of 'release'.... does the other wheel now spin more freely.... once it's released.... HOW, exactly, with an engine that DOES NOT have the power to overcome the rear grip in the dry!!!! The rear wheels can NEVER rotate at different speeds.... yes they might 'want' to but that can NEVER happen in a kart as we have a solid rear axle. Thus lifting the rear wheel can have NO EFFECT on the rotation rate, thus promoting it or reducing it can have ZERO EFFECT! What happens to the rotation of one wheel happens IDENTICALLY to the other..... ALWAYS!

For those who say it's 'too much grip at the rear' that we are overcoming..... think about it! Wouldn't that imply that it's POSSIBLE to have too much grip overall? IN THAT case, none of you would mind if you were forced to run on your existing tyres but MY lad was allowed to compete against you while running some super sticky tyres coated with softener....... You wouldn't object because 'my lad' would have TOO MUCH GRIP....... REALLY??????? It is simply IMPOSSIBLE for a kart to have 'too much' grip!!!!

If you are just saying that you CAN have too much grip at the rear and 'release' is just a reduction in that grip..... then what 'release' 'is' is...... 'overcoming understeer' and thus we can throw away this daft 'release' word as we already have 'understeer' which covers it, completely!

OK..... Jackie Stewart used to believe there were 5 phases in completing a corner which he expanded into 7 stages, finally. It's possible that we are therefore talking about removal of understeer in one of the later phases...... but......

Anyway, I may be wrong but.... show me where ......while remembering to say HOW your idea works so we can consider it.

Ian

Message Thread:

Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (31 Oct 2013 @ 17:12)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (31 Oct 2013 @ 17:37)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (31 Oct 2013 @ 18:22)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'fatsam' (31 Oct 2013 @ 18:52)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'kezz99' (31 Oct 2013 @ 20:09)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Liam' (31 Oct 2013 @ 20:35)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'raceinstructor' (31 Oct 2013 @ 20:39)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Liam' (31 Oct 2013 @ 20:48)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'kezz99' (31 Oct 2013 @ 21:52)

d-i-y71 by 'NJB' (01 Nov 2013 @ 6:17)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (01 Nov 2013 @ 9:37)

Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' << You are here!

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'd-i-y71' (01 Nov 2013 @ 11:43)

itpro for King! by 'Mark 71' (01 Nov 2013 @ 12:47)

Re: itpro for King! by 'fatsam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 13:29)

Re: itpro for King! by 'itpro' (01 Nov 2013 @ 14:42)

Re: itpro for King! by 'fatsam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 15:04)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (01 Nov 2013 @ 14:32)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Hi99' (01 Nov 2013 @ 14:47)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'd-i-y71' (01 Nov 2013 @ 15:16)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Hi99' (01 Nov 2013 @ 15:37)

Thanks Itpro ! by 'kezz99' (01 Nov 2013 @ 17:03)

Re: Thanks Itpro ! by 'fatsam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 17:37)

Re: Thanks Itpro ! by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 10:50)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (01 Nov 2013 @ 17:31)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'raceinstructor' (01 Nov 2013 @ 18:00)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'fatsam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 20:28)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'NikG' (01 Nov 2013 @ 22:25)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'fatsam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 22:34)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Liam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 22:47)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'NikG' (04 Nov 2013 @ 15:05)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (04 Nov 2013 @ 19:52)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'NikG' (04 Nov 2013 @ 21:13)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'd-i-y71' (04 Nov 2013 @ 22:26)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 0:23)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'NikG' (05 Nov 2013 @ 15:38)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 16:47)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'd-i-y71' (05 Nov 2013 @ 17:32)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Liam' (05 Nov 2013 @ 20:35)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'd-i-y71' (05 Nov 2013 @ 20:52)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Liam' (05 Nov 2013 @ 21:00)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 21:20)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Liam' (05 Nov 2013 @ 22:25)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 23:16)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 23:24)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Liam' (06 Nov 2013 @ 21:07)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'itpro' (06 Nov 2013 @ 22:50)

Re: Please stop misquoting me.... by 'NikG' (08 Nov 2013 @ 17:03)

Re: Please stop misquoting me.... by 'itpro' (08 Nov 2013 @ 18:15)

Re: Please stop misquoting me.... by 'NikG' (08 Nov 2013 @ 19:54)

Re: Please stop misquoting me.... by 'NikG' (09 Nov 2013 @ 7:34)

Re: Please stop misquoting me.... by 'itpro' (10 Nov 2013 @ 18:33)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'Liam' (01 Nov 2013 @ 22:36)

Re: Ok.... so what do we have....? by 'davidmc' (08 Nov 2013 @ 17:51)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (05 Nov 2013 @ 21:09)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'fatsam' (05 Nov 2013 @ 21:22)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (05 Nov 2013 @ 21:37)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (05 Nov 2013 @ 23:29)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Liam' (05 Nov 2013 @ 23:57)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (06 Nov 2013 @ 12:29)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (06 Nov 2013 @ 12:31)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (06 Nov 2013 @ 14:00)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'NikG' (06 Nov 2013 @ 15:36)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (06 Nov 2013 @ 16:28)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'NikG' (06 Nov 2013 @ 17:56)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'SkintFather' (06 Nov 2013 @ 18:01)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (06 Nov 2013 @ 22:54)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (06 Nov 2013 @ 19:49)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'NikG' (06 Nov 2013 @ 20:43)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'NikG' (06 Nov 2013 @ 20:44)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'fatsam' (06 Nov 2013 @ 20:55)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Liam' (06 Nov 2013 @ 20:56)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (06 Nov 2013 @ 23:06)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (07 Nov 2013 @ 8:17)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'SimonS' (07 Nov 2013 @ 11:25)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'buzzinrussell' (07 Nov 2013 @ 12:10)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2013 @ 17:44)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2013 @ 17:35)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (07 Nov 2013 @ 9:30)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2013 @ 10:45)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (07 Nov 2013 @ 11:48)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2013 @ 17:42)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (07 Nov 2013 @ 19:46)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (07 Nov 2013 @ 20:08)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (07 Nov 2013 @ 21:28)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (08 Nov 2013 @ 1:59)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (08 Nov 2013 @ 8:46)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (08 Nov 2013 @ 14:08)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'd-i-y71' (08 Nov 2013 @ 14:52)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (08 Nov 2013 @ 11:40)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (08 Nov 2013 @ 14:29)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (08 Nov 2013 @ 15:02)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (08 Nov 2013 @ 16:27)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'stevenw' (07 Nov 2013 @ 21:47)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'baldyheadgreg' (08 Nov 2013 @ 8:10)

Re: steven w by 'NikG' (08 Nov 2013 @ 17:36)

Nik G by 'stevenw' (08 Nov 2013 @ 23:00)

Re: Nik G by 'd-i-y71' (09 Nov 2013 @ 9:35)

Re: Nik G by 'NikG' (09 Nov 2013 @ 19:41)

Re: Nik G by 'd-i-y71' (09 Nov 2013 @ 22:36)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'Hi99' (08 Nov 2013 @ 11:44)

Re: Release Itpro! by 'itpro' (08 Nov 2013 @ 14:32)

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